Analysis of Gordon Day's Statement Concerning
the Lagrave Family Origins
by Canyon Wolf by Ne-Do-Ba
November 2005
It has been brought to our attention that a previous statement concerning the Lagrave/Brazil family made by our organization on this website does not make sense based on data found in our own database. Our statement was based on the research of Gordon Day as found on page 81 of "The Identity Of The Saint Francis Indians", National Museums of Canada, Ottawa 1981, National Museum Of Man Mercury Series ISSN 0316-1854, Canadian Ethnology Service Paper No. 71 ISSN 0316-1862.
The late Gordon Day often stated to genealogists that some statements made in "The Identity Of The Saint Francis Indians" had been disproved by additional research after it's publication. Most of his data was collected in the 1960s and 1970s. Our organization has disproved several of his statements in the past and I present the following analysis showing his Lagrave family statements are also disproved by facts.
Gordon Day stated "My informants remembered the first Lagrave as a white man who married an Abenaki woman, name unknown, in the Adirondacks, probably about the middle of the 1800s, and had four children. Francois Lagrave, who married Ursule Wazomimet and later Lucinda Annance, and Charles Ambroise Lagrave who married Victoria Obomsawin at Saint Francis, may have been children of the first Lagrave. The family has retained an Adirondack association almost to the present time."
Our website previously stated "The first Lagrave is believed to be a white man who married an Abenaki woman in the Adirondacks. This was probably Jean Baptiste who m. Agathe Minville."
The record of Francois Lagrave's marriage to Ursule Wasamimet in 1827 at St. Francois du-lac (aka St. Francis and aka Odanak) supports a birth year very early in the 1800s. Please note that this marriage is specifically referred to by Mr. Day. The parents of Francois, as recorded in his marriage record are Jean Baptiste Lagrave and Agathe Minville and this information along with Mr. Day's statement was the source of our previous statement. Descendants of Francois Lagrave frequently inter-marry with other Odanak families and are recorded as "Indian" or "Abenaki" in various records. Frank Grant III has previously demonstrated through detailed research, which Ne-Do-Ba accepts as proof, that Frank Brazil, found in Sharon Springs, NY is in fact the same man as Francois Lagrave found in Odanak records. Please note that Sharon Springs, NY is not considered part of the Adirondack region of New York State. These facts demonstrate that Francois Lagrave could not be the child of a couple that married in the mid-1800s in the Adirondacks and remembered by informants living in the 1960s.
Charles Ambroise Lagrave who married in 1870 to Victoria Obomsawin (also mentioned by Mr. Day) is clearly identified in that marriage record as the son of Francois Lagrave and Ursule Wasamimet. This marriage record clearly demonstrates that Charles Ambroise Lagrave could not be the child of a couple married in the mid-1800s in the Adirondacks. We have shown that we know exactly who his parents are, when and where they were married.
Baptism and marriage records at Odanak clearly show that Francois Lagrave and Ursule Wasamimet had at least six children known at Odanak, not 4 children as stated by Mr. Day's informants. The couple actually had more than 6 children, but only 6 are named in the records that our organization has on file. This point additionally demonstrates that Mr. Day's informants could not be speaking of the family of Francois Lagrave.
Mr. Day's informants (people living in the 1960s) may have remembered a mixed blood Lagrave family with 4 children in the Adirondacks, but the family being remembered can not possibly be the family of Francois Lagrave of Odanak (aka Frank Brazil of Sharon Springs, NY). Furthermore, these informants could not be referring to the "first Lagrave" family at Odanak, since Francois Lagrave was clearly at Odanak as early as 1827.
The previous statement made by our organization indicating "... [the] white man who married an Abenaki woman in the Adirondacks ... was probably Jean Baptiste who m. Agathe Minville." makes absolutely no sense after reviewing the facts and placing all of the people involved in the matter on a proper timeline.
Based on my review of the documents that this organization has on file, I have determined that Gordon Day's statement concerning the origins of the Lagrave surname at the village of St. Francois du-Lac, Yamaska, Quebec, Canada (aka Odanak) is not supported by documentation.
